Where do you start with a story about one of the most famous figures in Middle-earth history? For writers Arty Papageorgiou and Phorbe Gittins, it was a no-brainer what their entry point into The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim would be. Set during the reign of Helm Hammerhand (Brian Cox), a legendary king of Rohan, the film itself centers around Helm's daughter, Héra (Gaia Wise), and her leading her people through a difficult siege when a Dunlending army attacks them. Leading the attackers is her childhood playmate Wulf (Luke Pasqualino), the son of a Dunlending lord who Helm murdered. The film fully leans into the story of Man, specifically about the people of Rohan, giving viewers the backstory to how the Hornburg eventually became known as Helm's Deep.
Collider spoke with Arty Papageorgiou and Phoebe Gittins about the film, and why they decided to focus on Héra rather than one of Helm's two sons. They also discussed the most important scene that they needed to get right in the film. The two writers also understand the psychology behind both Wulf and Helm and how they added nuance to these two complicated characters. Finally, they teased their next project, The Hunt for Gollum, and gave a progress report on the status of the Andy Serkis project. You can check out the full conversation in the player above or read the transcript below.
Why Did 'The War of the Rohirrim' Focus on Héra as Its Protagonist?
"It was truly, genuinely driven by storytelling."
Image via Warner Bros
COLLIDER: How did you guys get involved in this project? This is a wildly ambitious project, and I'm curious how you came into it.
PHOEBE GITTINS: We came on board a little bit later than some of the core team. Philippa brought us on board, and initially, it was Jason DeMarco that we had conversations with about coming in and and looking at the story and helping to shape Hèra. I think they were looking for us to really come in and see what we could do with that character in particular. Then, in shaping her, obviously it has a knock-on effect on all the rest of the story. But that was kind of the entryway in for us.
I’m curious why there was this desire to focus the story Hèra as opposed to the other two of Helm’s sons. Was there a specific reason or a touch point that was trying to be achieved?
GITTINS: It was truly, genuinely driven by storytelling. If you look at the text, at what is in the appendices, it's kind of a no-brainer, really. Because we know what happens to Haleth and we know what happens to Háma.
ARTY PAPAGEORGIOU: She’s the center of the conflict.
GITTINS: We know what happens to Helm. We know that there is this unnamed daughter. But it’s about her; this war is about her. So, she did feel like the natural conclusion to this. That all actually felt very organic. When Philippa said, “Hey, and by the way, use the unnamed daughter.”
Perfecting Helm's Final Scene Was Vital to 'The War of the Rohirrim'
"Where he ends up was so iconic in my mind."
Image via Warner Bros
What was important for you to get right when it comes to this story? Obviously, there's a lot of Tolkien lore, and there's a lot of background, so there's a lot to take in. What was the thing that you were like, “We have to get this right. This is something that we cannot budge on?”
GITTINS: For me, it was the demise of Helm. Where he ends up was so iconic in my mind. That visual imagery was going to be difficult storytelling, but it was just such a striking, evocative piece of story.
PAPAGEORGIOU: How do we deliver that moment?
GITTINS: Then, funnily enough, that became some of my favorite imagery in the film.
PAPAGEORGIOU: And working back from that and then working forward from that, that was the cornerstone of the story. It's sort of how do you extend both ways?
Gittins and Papageorgiou Reveal Their Personal Connections to The Lord of the Rings
"The fact that it was one of the best trilogies ever made made it that much more difficult not to be swept into it."
Image via New Line Cinema
For the both of you, what was it that ignited your initial love for Tolkien? Phoebe, I saw that you were a part of The Fellowship of the Ring, which is wild to me. But was it in the book? Was it the movie? Was it a specific character?
PAPAGEORGIOU: For me, it was the fact that the films were shot, like, I could see them shooting out my window. So, growing up in Wellington, it was infectious. If you liked movies or television, you couldn’t help but be in awe of what was happening, you know? Wellington, back then, we didn't have big movies being shot, so this was a very exciting time. The fact that it was one of the best trilogies ever made made it that much more difficult not to be swept into it.
GITTINS: Yeah, I very much grew up on the film sets, as well. It was funny for me because growing up, all of this stuff seemed normal — people swinging swords and having elf ears. I thought that was the norm. So, yeah, I sort of grew up on these sets. I do feature a little wee, chubby hobbit.
That's amazing. I would put that little screenshot up in a framed photograph in my house if it was me.
PAPAGEORGIOU: Amazing. Well, now I know what I'm getting her for Christmas. Thank you!
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It's got to be big and hand-painted or something like that.
GITTINS: We've got to get you in there. Were you in any of them?
PAPAGEORGIOU: Relax.
There's still time to draw him in.
GITTINGS: That’s going to be my mission now.
PAPAGEORGIOU: I thought I was Lief’s inspiration.
GITTINS: You are the next Easter egg. We are going to embed you somewhere and then let people figure it out.
Héra's Rejection of Wulf Brings Him Down a "Very Dark Path"
"It is a huge part of what's driving this obsessive nature in him..."
Image via Warner Bros
So looking into the story a little bit, I think it's really interesting that because the story is focused around Hèra, there isn't a push to force her into a romantic relationship, which I feel could have been the natural conclusion with her and Wulf. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't hate that, but I think it's nice that there wasn't this decision to make them star-crossed lovers or any sort of romantic tension in that way. Was that deliberate, or was that something that wasn't really a consideration?
GITTINS: No, it was deliberate. It was kind of a device, mostly for our antagonist, for Wulf. I think he takes the rejection from Hèra to another level. It is a huge part of what's driving this obsessive nature in him that really derails him down a very dark path that he cannot bring himself back from. So, it was quite important, in that regard.
PAPAGEORGIOU: It not only speaks to the rejection of him, but it also speaks to the rejection of his people.
GITTINS: From Helm, also, yeah. That's interesting.
Would you say that he had like romantic feelings for her or was it more just a pride thing?
GITTINS: No, I think we toed this line of, yes, it's his father pushing him to do this initially, but we actually wanted to show underneath that they had a genuine friendship and relationship. That's where you get the scenes of them as children mirroring scenes of them later. He did have, I think, genuine feelings for her, but she couldn't return them.
PAPAGEORGIOU: As genuine as someone like that could, I guess.
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He had a tough childhood. There are some justifications for it, but I'm not going to make them because he went down a weird path in the end.
GITTINS: No, but you’re right. That said, it is that balance that we had to strike where he is very justified up to a certain point.
PAPAGEORGIOU: 100%.
I think towards the end, it's no longer justified.
Helm's One Weakness Was Important To Depict in the Movie
"There is a journey he has to go on with his daughter..."
Image via Warner Bros.
I'm curious about how this character, who is so large in the mythology in this world — spoiler alert, Helm's Deep is named after him — what was important to embody when it comes to creating this character and making sure he's not too larger than life and making sure he's not too much of anything and more of a balanced character?
GITTINS: Yeah, because he does come across as untouchable, almost. We always saw that he had this one weakness and it was his children, especially when it comes to Héra, and it does cloud his vision a little bit. So, there is a journey he has to go on with his daughter, which was very central to the storytelling in that he actually has to find a way to step back and trust in her to make her own decisions.
PAPAGEORGIOU: I love the idea that this larger-than-life warlord character has a crack in his armor, and it’s his family. So, if you're going to have an Achilles heel, what's the most opposite thing that we could give him? The fact that it was his family made a lot of sense.
Gittins and Papageorgiou Tease the Progress for 'The Hunt for Gollum'
"We are very, very lucky in that we're about to do a project with Andy Serkis."
Image via New Line Cinema
Now that you've got this Lord of the Rings movie under your belt, which is a huge accomplishment — congratulations on that, by the way — what for each of you is a dream next step? Like an ideal next project, or maybe just a dream project in your mind that you’re like, “I need to do this?”
GITTINS: Honestly, the one that we're about to do. We are very, very lucky in that we're about to do a project with Andy Serkis, who is directing The Hunt for Gollum. So, another Lord of the Rings, and that is my next dream project I'm so excited!
PAPAGEORGIOU: Getting to work with Andy, he's just got such an amazing creative spirit.
GITTINS: And who better, honestly? Who better for a Gollum film than Gollum himself?
I can't wait to watch that. Is there a progress on where you guys are in that?
GITTINS: It's progressing. [Laughs]
I respect that.
GITTINS: We’re in the treatment phase.
The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim is in theaters now.
The untold story behind Helm's Deep, hundreds of years before the fateful war, telling the life and bloodsoaked times of its founder, Helm Hammerhand, the King of Rohan.
Release Date December 13, 2024
Director Kenji Kamiyama
Runtime 134 Minutes
Main Genre Fantasy
Studio(s) New Line Cinema , Warner Bros. Animation , Sola Entertainment
Image via Warner Bros 
Image via Warner Bros 
Image via New Line Cinema 
Image via Warner Bros 
Image via Warner Bros. 
Image via New Line Cinema 
English (US) ·