’The Bear’s Jon Bernthal and Ebon Moss-Bachrach Break Down the Most Uncomfortable Scene in “Gary”

Editor's note: The following contains spoilers for The Bear standalone episode "Gary."

Co-written by Ebon Moss-Bachrach and Jon Bernthal and directed by creator Christopher Storer, the FX series The Bear recently dropped a surprise flashback episode, entitled “Gary,” showcasing a road trip to Gary, Indiana for Richard “Richie” Jerimovich and Michael “Mikey” Berzatto. Over the course of that story, the two friends spend time laughing together, bickering with each other, and pushing one another to the brink. While providing insight into Mikey’s mental state, the highs of congratulating his friend on pending parenthood quickly take a darker turn that make so many things about Richie so much more understandable.

Collider recently got the opportunity to chat with co-stars Moss-Bachrach and Bernthal, who are longtime friends themselves and currently starring on Broadway together in Dog Day Afternoon, about how this special episode came about. During the interview, they discussed how easy they found the experience of writing it, figuring out how the bar fight between their characters would play out, wondering how much of these events really happened or whether it’s all in Richie’s head, what Storer brought to the episode as its director, and whether that final moment could play into Season 5.

’The Bear’s Special Episode “Gary” Was Always Meant To Be a Standalone Featurette

"It was always intended as its own little memory piece."

Collider: Was this episode intended to be part of another season, and it was removed as a standalone, or did you specifically do this as a special one-off episode? When did you shoot this?

EBON MOSS-BACHRACH: We shot this during The Punisher Season 1. This was supposed to be part of the original first season of The Punisher on Netflix. No. This was always meant as a standalone little featurette, or whatever the parlance of the time, but we never really knew where it was going to get placed. That is above us. I really like where it wound up, as its own little thing, a month before Season 5. It feels really exciting and smart, given the context of things in Season 5 and what happens. But it was always intended as its own little memory piece.

Jon, you co-wrote this episode and you co-wrote The Punisher special. Which one did you write first and did working on one episode script make it easier to write the other?

JON BERNTHAL: Which did I write first?

MOSS-BACHRACH: I think you wrote this first.

BERNTHAL: Okay, yeah, maybe this one was first. They were obviously very different processes. This was all joy, all gas, all go. Ebon and I know each other very well. We’re very, very dear friends. I trust him so much as an artist, and his taste. From the beginning, when Chris [Storer] encouraged us to do this, we were pinching ourselves. We were so excited, I’ve said it before, but the things that I’ve been most proud of in my career, strangely, are the things that have come the easiest. The actual doing of this has been this real free flow of creativity and there haven’t been blocks or struggles. I never felt like there was a deadline that we needed to reach. We knew exactly what we wanted to do with this, and it was all “yes, and” additive. We finish each other’s sentences. Ebon really knew what was important to me, I knew what was important to Ebon, and we really were on the same page. Writing it was a joy. We really just threw it back and forth, and as soon as we had something, we took it to Chris, and it was go, go, go. I don’t think we ever really hit any bumps in the road. What we wrote is what you got.

There’s a moment when Mikey tells the bar that Richie is going to be a dad and gets super emotional about it, and they share this hug, but then Mikey blows it all up, and it culminates in Richie smacking him in the face and Mikey spitting at him. What was it like to figure out how that would escalate? Did you have each of those beats planned out? Did you try different things?

MOSS-BACHRACH: We knew that it had to be an event that was monumentous enough to sustain, like a pebble in Richie’s heart or a point of no return that was something that could haunt him for a very long time. So, there were stakes and transgressions that had to be met. We thought that a physical transgression, a physical contact, a hit was a good barometer and a good a line to cross. I don’t know. The speech makes so much sense to me.

BERNTHAL: Yeah, it had to be exactly what it was. There was a version of it, really early on, where it was much more physical. In transparency, when we came up with the idea, and we were writing it, it was in the wake, a little bit, of the “Fishes” episode and reminiscent of Donna’s blow up. Where she is breaking plates and eventually driving a car through the living room, one thing that we really wanted to do was shy from it being a huge thing. We were both really interested in how the words and what we say to each other is where the most impact comes from, and you can’t come back from that. If there was going to be any physicality, it was not going to be driving a car [through the wall]. We wanted it to be the same kernel, the same ailment, the same affliction that’s coming to fruition. We wanted it to manifest itself with the same weight, but we wanted it to be much, much smaller and maybe more subtle. And so, the only physicality that is exchanged is a slap and a spit.

MOSS-BACHRACH: I can’t imagine that this is the first time these two have gotten into fisticuffs either. I’m sure that they’ve punched each other many times over the years.

BERNTHAL: Yeah.

Jon Bernthal Wonders Whether ’The Bear’s “Gary” Episode Might All Be in Richie’s Head

"How does Richie know what actually happened in that bathroom?"

How hard was it to figure out where to take the episode after that fight and where to leave things?

BERNTHAL: I think we all know where this is going for Mikey, and I think Mikey knows where it’s going. It’s really important to always keep in mind that this is a memory piece. This is told through the lens of Richie’s memory. The only person who really knows what happened that day is Richie. There is metaphor. There is a little bit of a fantastical element. Who knows what of this really actually happened and what if this is just Richie’s memory of what happened. What if this is Richie imagining? How does Richie know what actually happened in that bathroom where Mikey can so acutely articulate the absolute specificity of his ailment and how his brain works? Maybe Richie wishes that he had that conversation with him, not with this complete stranger. Maybe that conversation is made up. Maybe that stranger doesn’t even exist. These are all the subtle questions and suggestions we want to leave the audience with, but we don’t want to answer it for them. We’re proud that there’s nothing really spoon-fed in this thing.

You guys wrote this episode, but Christopher Storer directed it. Did he give you any specific notes on anything that you feel strengthened what you had on the page or how you saw anything?

MOSS-BACHRACH: We’d be fools not to use him. He’s such a great writer. But he was very hands-off. We gave him a draft, and he had a couple of notes, but not many. We talked about a lot of things with Chris. And then, over the week of shooting it, there was a lot of discussion on the day and maybe just changing some things. Chris, on the day, broke what’s maybe my favorite scene in the whole episode, which is Mikey and Richie talking about different kinds of kicks in the parking lot behind the bodega. They’re talking about the crescent kick and the side kick. Chris said, “Okay, maybe for this, you guys are just sipping your beers, and you’re talking about different styles of kicks.” I loved that. It was such a great 12-year-old conversation to have.

I love the moments in this that felt very real. When you guys were playing basketball, it seemed quite physical. Were there ever moments where you got winded doing that?

MOSS-BACHRACH: I thought I was going to die. When I’m in Chicago, I’m in really bad shape, and I’m not a basketball player. There were very few moments when I was not winded.

Ebon Moss-Bachrach Won’t Spoil Richie’s Fate Ahead of ‘The Bear’ Season 5 Premiere

"The season comes out on June 25th, so that's not long to wait."

Ebon, what can you say about the car slamming into Richie? Will we learn more about that in Season 5?

MOSS-BACHRACH: I don’t really want to say anything about it. I don’t want to spoil anything. The season comes out on June 25th, so that’s not long to wait. Sorry, I don’t mean to be frustrating.

The Bear airs on FX and is available to stream on Hulu.