It’s been an eventful few weeks for HBO/HBO Max with a string of strong releases. Kicking off the current streak was an unlikely breakout, low-key Canadian acquisition Heated Rivalry. The hockey gay romance took America by storm, averaging 9 million U.S. viewers and counting to pace as the #1 acquired scripted series launch in HBO Max history.
It was followed by the January 8 return of HBO Max’s breakout medical drama The Pitt, which is averaging 9.5 million U.S. viewers thus far, up 65% from Season 1 and ranking among the top 5 returning seasons in platform history — both in the U.S. and globally — only behind the second seasons of The Last of Us, House of the Dragon and Euphoria domestically and the three, plus Season 3 of The White Lotus globally. The medical drama, from ER‘s R. Scott Gemmill, John Wells and Noah Wyle, also recently picked up more trophies at the Golden Globes and the Critics Choice Awards, including Best Drama Series at both.
Another January launch, HBO’s new Game of Thrones prequel series A Knight of The Seven Kingdoms, created by Ira Parker and George R.R. Martin, is averaging over 8 million U.S. cross-platform viewers thus far, pacing as a top 3 series debut globally in platform history behind House of the Dragon (17.2M over the same period) and The Last Of Us. Its companion, Season 4 of Mickey Down and Konrad Kay’s Industry is nearing a more modest 1.5 million U.S. cross-platform viewers but it is up year-to-year, with Season 4 outpacing Season 3 by about +40% and lifting global streaming of Season 1 nearly +50% last week to their highest levels ever as audiences continue to discover the series.
What’s more, all four series are delivering those viewership levels at very reasonable price tags, a fraction of the $20 million an episode House of the Dragon and other big-scale, high-end dramas reportedly cost.
In an interview with Deadline, Casey Bloys, Chairman and CEO of HBO and HBO Max Content, addressed the quartet’s performance and the status of additional seasons already ordered for The Pitt, AKOTSK and Heated Rivalry while hinting that a Season 5 of Industry may not be far behind.
AKOTSK, which is based on Game of Thrones author Martin’s three Dunk and Egg novellas (one season per book), is the second GoT prequel to get a series order after House of the Dragon. In the meanwhile, HBO has developed a slew of other offshoots, with a number being rumored to be currently in the works, including a Jon Snow and Arya Stark sequel written by Quoc Dang Tran; an animated Sea Snake project Nine Voyages, with Genndy Tartakovsky said to be attached, as well as 10,000 Ships written by Eboni Booth and Aegon’s Conquest penned by Mattson Tomlin.
Bloys would not comment on any of the alleged GoT development projects but indicated that the success of the smaller-scale, modestly budgeted A Knight of the Seven Kingdom is informing their development strategy.
He reflected on HBO’s association with Martin, who, in a recent Hollywood Reporter profile confirmed creative friction on House of the Dragon that started during Season 2 and came to a head at a start of Season 3 when the author allegedly temporarily stepped back. Not mincing words, Martin called his relationship with showrunner Ryan Condal, his co-creator on the series, “abysmal.”
Bloys also addressed Condal’s comments that Season 4 of HoD, whose third season premieres this summer, will be its last as well as wide speculation that the upcoming final seasons of HBO’s The Last of Us and HBO Max’s Hacks will also be their last.
As for Euphoria, whose third season was a logistical miracle, reassembling a cast of high-priced movie superstars, there may be some hope for more.
Bloys also discussed the swift acquisition of Crave’s drama Heated Rivalry, created by Jacob Tierney, whose success turned its young stars Hudson Williams and Connor Storrie into global celebrities overnight and whether HBO would get involved in the show creatively going forward.
‘The Pitt’
DEADLINE: Is the success of The Pitt a lesson that you don’t have to spend $20 million an episode to get a big commercially successful and acclaimed show?
BLOYS: I don’t know if it’s a lesson so much as it’s the history of television, there is a reason why shows were designed this way. What we were hoping for — and what The Pitt delivered — was more than six or eight weeks of episodes, 15 weeks of weekly engagement, but also, and probably most importantly in this environment, setting up a show that is creatively capable of coming back within a year, and with producers who are able to do that.
That obviously used to be the norm, and as an industry, we’ve gotten away from it as shows have gotten bigger and more complicated: special effects, shooting overseas, and all of the things that make shows bigger and more cinematic, but also more challenging to produce. The idea of getting back to the basics, back to what television was, the people who know how to do that, it’s a skill, and John and Scott and Noah know how to do that; John has made some of the best shows with the highest episode counts there are. So if you want to achieve those things, you have to go to people who understand how to set it up and execute on that.
DEADLINE: The Pitt has been able to replicate the creative strength of its first season in Season 2. How do you feel about them keeping up the level for the recently ordered Season 3?
BLOYS: I have zero doubts about their ability to keep it going.
DEADLINE: Are you excited about the pitch for Season 3?
BLOYS: They’re only preliminarily talking about ideas. This is a bet on that creative team, and what they’ve proven with Season 1 and Season 2. I don’t need to hear the specifics of what happens to understand what they’re going to do.
DEADLINE: Will they keep the cadence? Can we mark our calendars for a January 2027 Season 3 debut?
BLOYS (laughs): I don’t know the exact date but yes, the idea is to keep it on on an annual basis. One of the big goals in putting a show like this on the air was to be able to bring it back annually, that is an important part of the equation.
‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’
DEADLINE: Like The Pitt, A Knight of Seven Kingdoms also is delivering strong viewership on a modest budget and a smaller scale than House of Dragon, for example. Are you starting to rethink the model to possibly do more of these type of shows?
BLOYS: No, no, no. Firstly, and most importantly, the creative has to lead it and to use the two examples that you brought up, The Pitt and Seven Kingdoms. One of the reasons why medical shows have been a staple of television is it is a unique setup where you spend the majority of your time in one location, and drama walks through your door, three times an episode, somebody dying, somebody in distress.
That’s a unique setup that allows you to sustain the storytelling for 15 episodes. The production model is important, and I would say it serves the creative. The same thing with the Knight of Seven Kingdoms. If you think about the novellas, it’s a two-hander. It’s two unlikely friends and heroes wandering Westeros. From its inception, from the starting point, it is not warring families, it is not dragons, it is not giant battles. So the creative made sense first, and then the production follows.
I’m not looking to change the way that we make television at all. Our business has always been a portfolio business, which means you can have shows like The Last of Us or House Of the Dragon, and you can also have smaller-scale shows like Somebody Somewhere or The Chair Company, adding things that can come back on an annual basis, like The Pitt, or adding things where the creative lends itself, in Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, I don’t want to say an easier production, but something that allows you, on a smaller scale, to produce and come back on an annual basis.
DEADLINE: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms has been renewed for a second season. There are three novellas but George R.R. Martin has indicated that he has put other ideas to paper. Is there a possibility for the show to go beyond three seasons?
BLOYS: That would be a conversation with Ira and George. Certainly possible. So we’ll see. They’re producing Season 2 right now, Season 3 beyond that. I haven’t really gotten into what’s possible beyond that, but if he’s got more stories, it’s certainly something to talk to Ira and George about.
DEADLINE: Has production on Season 2 started?
BLOYS: Yes, they’re currently shooting. This will be annual. Again, it was something that we were trying to — it’s not possible for all shows — but it is something that, where it’s possible creatively, to get back to that and we’d like to try and do that.
George R.R. Martin, ‘HoD’ S3 & Endgame
DEADLINE: How would you describe HBO’s relationship with George R.R. Martin? He recently called his relationship with Ryan Condal “abysmal.”
BLOYS: Like any good American family, I would prefer that our dysfunction stays behind closed doors. But here we are. What I would say is George introduced us to Ryan as the person that he thought would be the best to create House the Dragon. And I will say Ryan has been an excellent showrunner and a really great partner and collaborator, so we embrace his vision and his creative choices, or we wouldn’t have done it.
DEADLINE: Do you still have an overall deal with George R.R. Martin?
BLOYS. Yes. Listen, I consider it great to have George as the architect of this world. I mean, think about what he has created, the world, the families, the battles, all of the history, it’s pretty extraordinary. George is a great partner for us to have. The idea that he is going to agree with every creator or showrunner that is either developing or producing, two artists are not always going to agree. So, some of this comes with the territory.
DEADLINE: How involved was he in Season 3? Did he really pull back and then come back?
BLOYS: He definitely took a step back. And I would say he’s definitely been focusing on Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. And I will tell you one of the reasons why [head of drama] Frannie [Orsi] and I really thought about the Knight of Seven Kingdoms as an interesting adaptation is, we had always heard and know that it was George’s favorite, that was meaningful to us.
DEADLINE: What is your assessment of House of the Dragon Season 3 creatively compared to previous seasons?
BLOYS: I’m thrilled. BTW, I’ve been thrilled by all three seasons. If you remind yourself of the Rotten Tomato stores of the first two seasons, it’s 87%; this has been a very successful show for us. So, again, I will say I’m thrilled with what Ryan has done, he’s been a great collaborator with us.
DEADLINE: HoD has been renewed for a Season 4, and Ryan has gone on the record that it will be the final season. I don’t think HBO has said it officially. Is this the case?
BLOYS: Yes, that is the idea. The idea has always been to follow the history of the Targaryens. If you know the books, you know how the Targaryens end up. So there is a natural end to this particular history of that House of the Targaryens.
DEADLINE: And any plans to have a supersized final season?
BLOYS: Ryan is working, like any show like this; he is finishing post on Season 3 and working with the writers on what Season 4 looks like. I don’t know where he’s landed on the episode count yet.
‘Hacks’, ‘The Last Of Us’ & ‘Euphoria’ Finales
DEADLINE: Since we’re talking about endings, I’m going to ask about Hacks and The Last of Us‘ upcoming seasons also being final. Is it something you can confirm?
BLOYS: It certainly seems that way, but on decisions like that, we will defer to the showrunners. So you can ask them.
DEADLINE: I deliberately did not include Euphoria in the last question. It has been widely expected that Season 3 would be the final chapter but I hear that creator Sam Levinson may have an idea for a potential fourth season. What’s happening with that?
BLOYS: What’s happening is Sam is finishing the third season, which I will say he’s come up with an incredible way to move all these characters ahead five years, it’s really exciting to see. We’re just starting to see the cuts, which are great. But in terms of what he wants to do next, we will have a conversation about what he’s thinking. But right now, he’s focused on finishing three and getting it out.
DEADLINE: Do you think it’s feasible that you can bring the cast back?
BLOYS: Not something I can even get into. We need to find out what Sam is thinking, what he wants to do creatively either with the show, with his life. I don’t know exactly what he wants to do next, so that’ll be a conversation with him. But he is in the thick of Season 3 right now.
‘Derry’, ‘Rehearsal’ & ‘Florida’ Renewals
DEADLINE: And a show that has found itself surprisingly in limbo with no renewal yet, IT: Welcome to Derry. What is the rationale; it did so well?
BLOYS: Let me say, not in limbo at all. Hardly. It was a huge success for us. And Andy [Muschietti] and Barbara [Muschietti] are hard at work trying to come up with an idea for a story they’d want to tell for another season. I would happily do it. One of the challenges is, there’s not a book that you’re basing it on, so it’s invention. They want to make sure that they have a story they’re excited to tell. So it’s not limbo other than they need to land on something they’re excited by creatively. We’ll be there.
DEADLINE: It’s probably going to be the same answer on The Rehearsal. You said in September that it’s all in Nathan Fielder’s hands. Has he come up with an idea for Season 3 yet?
BLOYS: Yes. He’s talking to [HBO head of comedy] Amy Gravitt about ideas. I think he has a kernel of an idea that he seems to be excited by, but he and Amy are talking. So again, when he’s ready, he will come to us.
DEADLINE: What is your assessment of It’s Florida, Man? It is an experiment; a different kind of budget, a different setup.
BLOYS: It’s Danny McBride and his company, and I think it’s a lot of fun. I’ll break news with you, we are going to do another season.
‘Game of Thrones’ spinoffs
DEADLINE: The rumored slate of Game of Thrones offshoots. Is there anything real? The Jon Snow-Arya Stark sequel, where is that at?
BLOYS: Well, since you’re asking, you know what my answer is going to be, is that we don’t really talk about development. But, one thing I will say that’s interesting. Obviously, there’s a lot of interest around the Game of Thrones universe. And one thing I noticed with the launch of The Seven Kingdoms was this idea that it was the latest Game of Thrones spinoff.
And I do like to remind people that there have been exactly two spinoffs, House of the Dragon, and then The Seven Kingdoms which launched two weeks ago. Sometimes, because of the intense interest in development, I think people get confused and believe that development means something is actually in production. So I just want to be clear about that we’ve been very, very judicious about shows that we produce. We’ll develop a lot because we want to give ourselves the best chance of finding a show that makes sense, but we have not produced all that much. This is not Marvel level, four seasons a year, or anything like that. So sometimes people confuse development speculation with actual shows being produced.
DEADLINE: Can you at least give us a sense how many of the HoD live-action and animated spinoffs that have been in development are still active and whether any of them is close to a green light?
BLOYS: I’m not getting into any of that. Development is development, we like to give ourselves as many options as possible. And that’s part of the reason why it makes no sense for us to comment on it, because it does fuel this idea that misinformation, and shows are about to be greenlit, and so we just try to keep a lid on it. I know it all comes from the place of being excited, but we try to be careful about what we actually develop and produce.
DEADLINE: In terms of scope, is the slate of offshoots more diversified given the success of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms? Are you looking for stories in the GoT world that can be told that way?
BLOYS: I do think that A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms was instructive in that it does show that the interest in the Game of Thrones universe is there, whether it is huge set pieces or more intimate character piece. So that was instructive. But the way we develop is from the stories. And like I said, from the beginning, George’s conception of the Dunk and Egg novellas was on a small scale. So I don’t think I would take what would otherwise be a giant show and try to produce it smaller. The creative has to lead.
DEADLINE: George has been listed as co-creator on the two GoT spinoffs to date. Will that continue to be the case going forward?
BLOYS: I suspect, because he’s been fairly involved in the process.
DEADLINE: The success of Heated Rivalry, did it catch you by surprise?
DEADLINE: We’ve got it in Australia, US, Italy, Germany, I think also in Latin America and some other territories, but we picked it up in the US, I wanna say, three weeks before it aired. I think what was happening was, Crave originally was going to take it out in 2027 and then they liked what they were seeing and moved up the airdate. So the sales process was more accelerated.
When I was sent the episodes, I was surprised it was available. It’s rare that you’ll see a finished show available three weeks from air. So it was a strange situation that was even available, but I was happy it was available. It was a very easy yes, like, of course, we’ll take it. I was able to see all the episodes, and I would say that we had some sense that it would make waves or be something that people talked about, but not the way that [it did], the stardom that these guys have experienced and the conversation around the show has been a really nice story and a fun story to witness and be a part of.
DEADLINE: Was it competitive, did you have to bid against other streamers in the US?
BLOYS: Well, we moved very quickly. I got it on a Friday. We made an offer on a Monday. I’m not exactly sure where else Crave was selling this, so I don’t know the details of the sales process, but I was just happy that we got in there and got it done.
DEADLINE: Is this the best return on investment ever in the history of HBO?
BLOYS (laughs): It’s gotta be pretty close. It was a great move, and we’re thrilled to have it on HBO Max. And look forward to Seasons 2 and 3.
DEADLINE: Do you have to pay more for licensing future seasons in light of the success?
BLOYS: Typically, when you make a deal like this, any subsequent seasons are included. So thanks to Crave for producing the show
DEADLINE: And they have to deal with renegotiations with the actors, right?
BLOYS: It is a Crave original, so I imagine. Very happy licensees.
DEADLINE: So you have no desire to come in as a co-producer?
BLOYS. No, there is no reason. This is obviously a very successful creative collaboration between Jacob and Crave. I see no reason why we would be involved creatively. And as I said, I’m thrilled to have it on our platform, and I’m very happy to be the licensee in a lot of big markets around the world. So I’m very happy, and I’m excited to see whatever they come up with for Seasons 2 and 3.
DEADLINE: So the show will not be HBO-ized?
BLOYS: No, no, no.
DEADLINE: What can you say about Season 2? Production was supposed to start, I think June or July, but people may try to put a rush on it now, given the success.
BLOYS: I don’t know. That really is between Jacob and Crave and actors. I’ve seen in the press, I think the actors have speculated, maybe summer sometime. I don’t really know.
DEADLINE: What’s next? Would you do more acquisitions for HBO Max or was this a lightning in a bottle?
BLOYS: It is lightning in a bottle, for sure. But, obviously, we have big acquisitions. We have a huge Warner Brothers library, we have Mad Men, for example, on the platform, we do acquisitions. It is rare for an acquired original to blow up like this.
‘Industry’
DEADLINE: Compared to the numbers we just mentioned, Industry‘s 1.5 million viewers delivery is modest, but it’s 40% up from Season 3. Talk about how HBO can afford to renew shows that it believes in that may not be broad hits.
BLOYS: Industry is a really great story. First of all, it has grown. It’s unusual in that it has grown every season. And typically, we see growth within the season, and then when we bring back Season 2, Season 3, and Season 4, we’ve seen catch-up viewing on each previous season. So it’s been a nice effect.
I have to give credit to Jane Tranter, who we developed the show with, she’s a producer at Bad Wolf. We started out saying, let’s try and produce a very modestly budgeted show. Bad Wolf has studios in Cardiff, Wales, and the idea was to find talent coming out of drama school, something we could shoot mostly in Cardiff. So it was very modestly budgeted, and continues to be, relative to other shows, very modestly budgeted and easy to say yes to, and that was all due to Bad Wolf and to Jane.
And I’ll say, what’s nice about the show is everybody involved, Mickey and Konrad, the actors, everybody’s profile has grown exactly as you want to see with a show like this. It does prove again that TV makes stars. Seeing Myha’la and Marisa [Abela] and their profiles rise and Mickey and Konrad, how they’re running the show has been really exciting to see. So it’s really been a great success story for us, for our collaboration with Bad Wolf.
DEADLINE: You started adding big names with Kit Harington in Season 3, and even more this season, so it is not the same small show anymore.
BLOYS: But I will say it is still a very smartly produced show. In other words, the budget isn’t some massive thing. It is a smartly produced.
DEADLINE: Since Industry seems to be breaking out, can we expect another renewal?
BLOYS: You’ll have to wait and see.
Warner Bros.-Netflix
DEADLINE: With all the activity at HBO, we need to acknowledge what is happening in the background. I know you can’t say much but how would you imagine HBO adding prestige to Netflix’s slate?
BLOYS: Well, as you imagine, not a lot I can talk about. Obviously, I read what you write and what other people put out there, so I don’t have any inside knowledge about anything, and it’s not far enough along that we’ve had any discussions about what it would look like or anything like that. So it’s not something I can comment on because I don’t know a lot about it.
DEADLINE: Okay, but does it excite you, the idea that you may team up with your biggest rival whom you’re fighting at every awards show?
BLOYS: Could be fun.
DEADLINE: And last but not least, have you narrowed down the premiere window for the Harry Potter series?
BLOYS: Well, we’ve been saying 2027. I would say, to narrow it down to some extent, early 2027. And now you’re going to ask, does that mean January, February, March, April, that we’re not ready to say. I’ll say early 2027.
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