Fred Hechinger Had to ‘Break All the Rules’ as an Actor for RaMell Ross’ ‘Nickel Boys’

Fred Hechinger‘s dedication to acting all but hinges on his dedication to auteurs. And according to the breakout star of “Nickel Boys,” “Gladiator II,” and “Kraven the Hunter” this holiday season, the line between indies and blockbusters is only really defined by who’s directing.

“I just really believe in movies. I love them so much, and it’s always a kind of trick of timing when two projects that were made in very different contexts in different times come out near one another,” Hechinger told IndieWire of working with RaMell Ross and Ridley Scott for “Nickel Boys” and “Gladiator II,” respectively. “But I think it’s especially exciting when, formally, they’re so opposite. Both of these directors’ work are inspiring, but they’re completely different.”

Hechinger added, “There’s no one way to direct a movie, other than it has to be personal, and it has to come from what’s unique and thrilling and original about the group of people making it.”

While Scott is a staple of risk-taking cinema across his decades in Hollywood, “Nickel Boys” writer/director Ross has only made two films, with “Nickel Boys” being his narrative debut. Now, Ross has been awarded the coveted Best Director prize at the Gotham Film Awards and New York Film Critics Circle for “Nickel Boys,” which is also nominated for the Golden Globe for Best Motion Picture – Drama.

Ross’ first feature in 2018, “Hale County, This Morning, This Evening,” compelled Hechinger to seek out the filmmaker. “I loved ‘Hale County This Morning, This Evening,'” Hechinger said. “It has some visual similarities in some ways to ‘Nickel Boys.’ If you dug ‘Nickel Boys,’ I feel like you might also really be moved and feel a lot from [his first film]. Basically, I watched that movie when it came out, and for years there were images in that movie that felt like they were still alive to me. There were these shots that felt like they were not just a two-dimensional frame; they felt like vibration and were alive. They stuck with me, and they inspired me, and they haunted me.”

He added, “After that, I always wanted to work with RaMell. And so to then see him make a movie of more fictional sense and completely reinvent the wheel of how a movie is made, throw away all these rules that are unnecessary and yet people outwardly follow a lot of the time. … I was just very inspired by that.”

In turn, Ross encouraged Hechinger to “break all the rules” as an actor, especially given the unprecedented POV shots created by New York Film Critics Circle award-winning cinematographer Jomo Fray. Lead stars Brandon Wilson and Ethan Herisse would act as camera operators in certain sequences, often swapping with Fray on set. Hechinger was sometimes acting opposite his co-stars or Fray for certain takes.

“‘Nickel Boys,’ on the first day, you’re facing the thing that scares you the most, staring right down the camera. It’s almost like when people say, ‘You can avoid death your whole life, or you can try and address it early on and see how that changes how you live.’ That’s a little bit how I felt about the camera, which is like this thing that we ignore or pretend to forget about, and instead, by staring it right in the eyes each day, the power that it secretly has may be changed or chipped away if that makes sense. … The number one rule of, probably, film acting is don’t look in the camera, right?,” Hechinger said of speaking into the camera as though it, too, were a character.

“I felt like, upfront, there was this hyper-awareness and then that kind of transferred into something else. The camera takes on a different meaning in the same way that I think RaMell is talking about subjectivity of gaze. I think when you see movies, you assume that there’s some objective framing. And I think ‘Nickel Boys’ proves how untrue that is, that there’s an ulterior motive to movies that say this is the only way that it really is.”

‘Nickel Boys’©MGM/Courtesy Everett Collection

Hechinger continued, “[The film] blurred roles that are usually more set in stone, and it created fluidity in terms of the collaboration and community of a film set, in the sense that Brandon and Ethan sometimes functioned as camera operators. And Jomo Fray, our cinematographer, sometimes functioned as an actor in the movie. That idea was brought to the forefront. The experience of getting to see all those artists learn from each other and move between disciplines was very inspiring. It was just seamlessly integrated. These things that are generally very technical became emotional and experiential.”

Ross also used experimental techniques for crowd scenes, particularly one sequence in the boxing match scene with local New Orleans-based background actors.

“For most of them, it was their first time acting on film,” Hechinger said about his 15 co-stars for that scene. “The camera moves and stops and moves and it kind of freezes and moves, freezes and moves, and RaMell did this thing on that day: As it happened every day, he would just get inspired and new ideas would come up that would become these really fundamental essential parts of the movie. His idea was that he had this whole group of 15 guys all freeze when he would say ‘freeze’ and then he would go ‘unfreeze’ and they would start to move. They would all freeze and unfreeze, and they started to move after two times, even when he didn’t say anything. And this group of 15 actors would freeze and unfreeze at the same time without anybody saying anything. It was like they had like this thing that started as a kind of play or experiment had become truly kind of magical.”

The blurring of roles on set, combined with the spontaneity of Ross’ direction, made for an unexpected parallel between “Nickel Boys” and “Gladiator II.” Ridley Scott also had the cameras become part of the film set, and encouraged actors like Hechinger and Denzel Washington to act in the moment (“Every single day, Denzel will surprise you. That’s part of why he’s one of our greatest actors,” Hechinger said.)

“Gladiator II” notoriously used at least eight cameras in scenes, with camera operators going undercover as extras. To Hechinger, Scott’s directing style was like Ross’ in that way.

“I say this without any bias or judgment, but sometimes there can be a colder separation between actors and the camera department,” Hechinger said. “For instance, it’s almost like two entities that are politely ignoring one another. I’ve noticed that sometimes, and I can understand in certain contexts why that happens and why both parties feel that’s helpful to get their job done, but in this context of [‘Nickel Boys’], you felt like the story was living through all of it, and the technical side was not this scientific objective or a harsher sort of decree on what was happening. Instead, it was as emotional and experiential as the actors were. And then it also made it so that as actors, we probably became technical in a lot of regards as well.”

Hechinger continued, “And then in the case of ‘Gladiator,’ it would be almost impossible to find all of the cameras that are running at the same time. They’re hidden throughout the set. There are actual operators dressed up in Roman attire, and they’re covering their equipment with hoods and different Roman garb. I guess there is a similarity in the sense that operators are a part of the scene and are acting in the environment. But the difference would be there was absolutely no awareness of the camera. It’s all long-lens zoom stuff. It felt more like theater in that regard, like the scope and the scale of the movie is so epic and big in that way, the pace is so breakneck. The process was one of utter immersion and accepting that you are a part of this environment that’s around you and just figuring out how to reckon with that environment.”

‘Gladiator II’

Working alongside fellow theater actors like Washington and Paul Mescal also made “Gladiator II” feel like a stage production. “You can do more takes if you want, but there’s a world sometimes where it’s like [Ridley Scott] has covered it so much that if it’s one take, it could be one take. That also has a very theatrical element to it because that’s how it is like doing plays,” Hechinger said. “In that moment, you can never go back, you know? It’s closer to my experience of life as well. There’s no rewind; you have one chance.”

While Hechinger plays what could be described as empathetic antagonists in both films, the actor clarified that it’s rather the inherent violence of mankind that he embodies in both sweeping features instead.

“I think those labels are meaningful for the analysis and writing of movies and for people to talk about them. But in terms of the work of making them, they’re never at the forefront,” Hechinger said of getting into character for both films. “I think Ridley is very interested in systemic power. So many of his movies are about power and systems of power. And this one is even more than the first [‘Gladiator’]. This one is more of a weird kaleidoscope about the entire power structure, with all these people thinking that they’re secretly on top and figuring out who is the puppet master. In actuality, what’s happening around them is so much violence.”

Ross’ “Nickel Boys” too captures the systemic violence of a racist society; the film is based on Colson Whitehead’s Pulitzer Prize-winning novel that was inspired by the real-life killings at juvenile detention centers.

“This story does show actually in practicality how violence is put on all these kids, on these children, and how immense the suffering as it’s not only being overlooked but it’s built into a racist system. I think what a movie should do is show you in all of the complexity how that really happens, because it’s very easy to sit in a theater and think, ‘Oh, look at this terrible thing. But these people are bad and these people are good.’ It can create a kind of self-satisfied distance, when in fact we are, in every moment, connected and partied to systems of violence and suffering,” Hechinger said of “Nickel Boys.”

He continued, “It’s not about an outside thing, like, ‘Is he a villain, is he not a villain?’ It’s simply like, ‘What does he and why and how does he do those things?’ Every person has a reason with the distance. You can look at how meaningless or avoidant or cruel that reason is. But people do give themselves some kind of reason. I think the scary reality is that there is a culpability and responsibility that we are party to, in terms of the immense violence and the cruelty that surrounds us.”

As for what’s next for Hechinger, the actor shared that he is open to returning to stage, TV (he starred in the first season of “The White Lotus”), or film (he also starred in “Thelma” this year).

“I really am led by director, script, and character. I don’t give much weight to the medium in the context of a story. Some stories need to be told in movie form, some need to be told over a longer period. Some need to be shown a big screen. Some, it’s helpful for it to be a more intimate viewing that you have at home,” Hechinger said. “But I don’t have any I don’t draw any lines in the sand in regards to that. I also want to do a play again. It’s just always hard because you don’t want to say it out loud. I think sometimes projects are like dreams a little bit where you want to actually make it happen so you don’t put it out there.”

In the meantime, Hechinger is excited for the critical reception to “Nickel Boys,” and awaits knowing what theater audiences will think. Simply, Hechinger wants his fellow cinephiles to discover the power of Ross’ vision.

“I watch a lot of movies. The connection to making them comes from the same person that was just obsessed watching them. But I also think, sometimes, movies can kind of become obsessed with themselves and in this sort of far away place, and I feel [‘Nickel Boys’ director] RaMell watches everything and anything and is inspired by it to expand the language of cinema,” Hechinger said. “In our conversations early on, you [felt] genuinely experimental, not even to provoke but to reveal a truth that you’re hiding from. That’s what this experience felt like in a lot of ways. Every single day felt like a discovery.”

Amazon MGM will release “Nickel Boys” today, December 13 in select theaters, with a nationwide release to follow on Wednesday, December 25.