Hacks Season 5: Deborah & Ava's Relationship Shifts As They Aim for Career Comeback

Deborah is finally getting the career comeback she's been longing for. After booking Madison Square Garden, the sky is the limit for Hacks' lead character, but the bold move has a major impact on her relationship with Ava.

While it seems the duo is still locked into that transactional dynamic that defines the early stages of their partnership, the shift comes when Deborah lands MSG, changing the stakes entirely. And it's not just a career flex, it's a declaration that she's aiming higher than ever. Suddenly, Ava isn't just punching up jokes for a fading act; she's helping shape a historic comeback. That booking, however, forces both women to confront some hard truths: Ava has to take Deborah more seriously as a performer with real ambition, while Deborah places all her bets on this next chapter, which implicitly includes Ava.

ScreenRant's Tatiana Hullender spoke to both Hannah Einbeinder and Jean Smart ahead of the fifth and final season of the beloved dramedy, where they reflected on the major change in the pair's relationship as the show comes to a close, and the realization that Ava and Deborah might actually need each other to pull this big comeback off.

Hannah Einbeinder: I think that Ava is along for the ride. She's always there as a support for Deborah's dream, and what they are trying to work towards together. Whether that's her late-night show, her first special that they did together, which kind of helped Deborah out of the Vegas scene and a little bit back into the mainstream conversation. Or this MSG show, this thing that they're trying to make happen. And I think as all of those things have come to fruition, it becomes clear that Ava feels justified in finding her own path in that way. And it's just poetic and really beautiful. And I think it honors Deborah that it is connected to her in some way, right? This reboot of Who's Making Dinner that she's trying to make happen. So I think it's justified and really beautiful.

As for how that push-and-pull impacts their dynamic in season 5, Einbeinder said, it's only made them stronger.

Hannah Einbeinder: I would say that it's really strong. I think they're on the same team. And they're able to just attack all of these goals together, which is nice.

Smart, meanwhile, told ScreenRant that the big thing that changes for Deborah in particular is the realization that she actually needs Ava to make it.

Jean Smart: Oh, I think the stakes are so high for Deborah that she really has to admit to Ava and mostly to herself how much she needs Ava — really needs Ava. When people need each other, that creates a very strong bond. It's sort of like the mother and child dynamic.

That dynamic ultimately ends up playing a role in Ava's relationship with her mother, Nina, and shifts it just as much, if not more than her relationship with Deborah over the course of season 5.

How Ava's Relationship With Deborah Helped Her Understand Her On-Screen Mom

ScreenRant: Can you talk about sort of Ava's family life? Her mom has reappeared several times. What can we see of that this season? What does it mean for Ava as she's growing up from her 20s to her 30s?

Hannah Einbeinder: We get to see a lot more Jane Adams, which is always a treat for all of us, especially myself. Getting to act opposite her is the gift of all gifts, and she makes me break like no one else. I think it's been cool. I feel like she was so loathsome towards her mom and just like, "Oh my God, she's such a pain in my ass." And she was always quirky and endearing, but I think Ava has grown to feel so much more empathetic towards her own mom, which is no doubt as a result of understanding Deborah more. You know what I mean? It's like there's this relationship that is this push-and-pull in her life, where she gets to argue and make sense of things and grow alongside someone who is of a different generation. And I think that we see the effects of that on her relationship with her mom as the show progresses.

When it comes to what Einbeinder wants for Ava individually as her story comes to a close, she told ScreenRant she's simply hoping she gets to a place that feels "fulfilling."

What Hannah Einbeinder Wants For Ava As The Series Ends

ScreenRant: Before stepping into this season, did you have any lingering questions for Ava, for her arc, that you hoped to tackle?

Hannah Einbeinder: All I was really after was my hope for her that she is good, and that she ends up in a place that feels fulfilling for her. And that was all I really thought about, because every season I've gone into it hoping she's doing well and hoping she gets treated with respect. And so I always just go in open-minded because the plot is always handled so beautifully.

Check out more of our Hacks coverage here:

• Why Hacks Is Ending After Season 5 & How It Fulfills OG Plan Revealed By Creators​​​​​​​
• Every New Guest Star & Cameo In Hacks Season 5 (So Far)
• Hacks Season 5 Review: Deborah & Ava Get The Last Laugh In The Comedy's Bold & Note-Perfect Final Season​​​​​​​